TJT
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Joshua Tree Tour 2019
 Legs (1): New Zealand, Australia and Asia
Shows: 15
  1. One must consider that due to the JT stage and sound system the 270 configuration capacities of the stadiums on this tour are slightly lower than usual (for example just look at the numbers for stadiums on the European leg of the JT tour and we all agree that they don't have problems selling out the full capacity of the stadiums in Europe).

    Another factor that determines the capacity for the venue is the general fire regulations and security policy of the venue or/and state regulations regarding the full capacity of the stadiums and especially the number of GA sold for the specific date.

    Of course to state that Auckland2 was a sellout is ridiculous. It was a tehnical sellout. But that's just the way the industry works these days. From a reliable source I can tell you that the 1st night was set at roughly 37.000, so the 2nd one did around 32-33k.

    Numbers for Brisbane and Melbourne are great btw.

    As expected they had problems in Adelaide, but in general I think the sales are ok for this leg, especially since the whole LN /Ticketbastard sales model has changed a lot and the days of instant sellouts are more or less history...
  2. Originally posted by deanallison:[..]
    Of course it ‘technically’ was, that’s why it’s been listed as one but this is not reality. It’s a marketing thing to sound good, ‘U2’s sold out 2019 JT tour’ when it wasn’t sold out. It is what it is, other artists do it so u2 aren’t any worse than anyone else but if you attended a concert with someone and they pointed out an empty seat and you said ‘well technically it isn’t empty’ they’re going to look at you funny. Anyway the numbers are good 69k is good going but the 2nd show wasn’t sold out.
    I get all this, and it probably is driven by marketing/business... How come acts like Guns & Roses, Stones, Springsteen have lots of not-sould-out shows according to the same Boxoffice reports?

    Do the others have a different promotor you think?
  3. Originally posted by celtic:One must consider that due to the JT stage and sound system the 270 configuration capacities of the stadiums on this tour are slightly lower than usual (for example just look at the numbers for stadiums on the European leg of the JT tour and we all agree that they don't have problems selling out the full capacity of the stadiums in Europe).

    Another factor that determines the capacity for the venue is the general fire regulations and security policy of the venue or/and state regulations regarding the full capacity of the stadiums and especially the number of GA sold for the specific date.

    Of course to state that Auckland2 was a sellout is ridiculous. It was a tehnical sellout. But that's just the way the industry works these days. From a reliable source I can tell you that the 1st night was set at roughly 37.000, so the 2nd one did around 32-33k.

    Numbers for Brisbane and Melbourne are great btw.

    As expected they had problems in Adelaide, but in general I think the sales are ok for this leg, especially since the whole LN /Ticketbastard sales model has changed a lot and the days of instant sellouts or more or less history...
    I just checked the 2 shows in Amsterdam for JT 2017 had an average attendance of 52,3K, sold-out.

    Same stadium earlier tours:

    Vertigo - Little bit over 55K per night
    360 - Around 63K per night

    So it's either the stage, stricter GA capacity rules or it's the marketing. But tbh, U2 usually sells out 2 or more stadium concerts in NL in under 30 minutes...
  4. Originally posted by melon51:[..]
    I get all this, and it probably is driven by marketing/business... How come acts like Guns & Roses, Stones, Springsteen have lots of not-sould-out shows according to the same Boxoffice reports?

    Do the others have a different promotor you think?
    Well to touch on what someone said a few comments ago maybe these artists have been bold in putting tickets on sale for the entire venue where u2 keep back some. If all available tickets sell u2 can release the held back tickets at a slow rate. I think as long as 90% of available tickets sell they can label it a sell out. So lets say the venue holds 40k but they only make 35k available for night 2 then they only need to sell 31.5k for a ‘technical’ Sell out. If they sold all 35k they could start putting more tickets up for sale. Only a theory of course I have no evidence to back this up.
  5. Originally posted by celtic:One must consider that due to the JT stage and sound system the 270 configuration capacities of the stadiums on this tour are slightly lower than usual (for example just look at the numbers for stadiums on the European leg of the JT tour and we all agree that they don't have problems selling out the full capacity of the stadiums in Europe).

    Another factor that determines the capacity for the venue is the general fire regulations and security policy of the venue or/and state regulations regarding the full capacity of the stadiums and especially the number of GA sold for the specific date.

    Of course to state that Auckland2 was a sellout is ridiculous. It was a tehnical sellout. But that's just the way the industry works these days. From a reliable source I can tell you that the 1st night was set at roughly 37.000, so the 2nd one did around 32-33k.

    Numbers for Brisbane and Melbourne are great btw.

    As expected they had problems in Adelaide, but in general I think the sales are ok for this leg, especially since the whole LN /Ticketbastard sales model has changed a lot and the days of instant sellouts are more or less history...
    those numbers make more sense I think.. 37/33 corresponds better with what it looked like on pics and video's... sales are ok, gross profit seems to be a bit lower on average compared to JT 2017
  6. Well it's not a "technical: sell out haha. It means that all tickets available for sale were sold. You sell out the "event" , not the place that you choose to organize that event in?

    I mean, I could sell out Wembly Stadium if I was prepared to pay rent ofthe venue and put 100 tickets for sale, 30 were bought and 70 I gave away.
  7. Originally posted by deanallison:[..]
    Well to touch on what someone said a few comments ago maybe these artists have been bold in putting tickets on sale for the entire venue where u2 keep back some. If all available tickets sell u2 can release the held back tickets at a slow rate. I think as long as 90% of available tickets sell they can label it a sell out. So lets say the venue holds 40k but they only make 35k available for night 2 then they only need to sell 31.5k for a ‘technical’ Sell out. If they sold all 35k they could start putting more tickets up for sale. Only a theory of course I have no evidence to back this up.
    I like this discussion by the way!

    On your point.. Why would only U2 and not the other bands do exactly the same? For ex. Springsteen reported 33.700 out of 34k somewhere.

    I am pretty sure (and I think that's where we agree) that U2 man. does some smart manipulation here to make the numbers look more convincing. They might also trick around with putting up/taking seats very quickly when demand guides them. But 90%?.. these systems are all connected, so everything put up for sale must have been "sold"actually.

    But still ...that's hardly marketing "rocket science" these days, wondering ?
  8. Originally posted by melon51:[..]
    I like this discussion by the way!

    On your point.. Why would only U2 and not the other bands do exactly the same? For ex. Springsteen reported 33.700 out of 34k somewhere.

    I am pretty sure (and I think that's where we agree) that U2 man. does some smart manipulation here to make the numbers look more convincing. They might also trick around with putting up/taking seats very quickly when demand guides them. But 90%?.. these systems are all connected, so everything put up for sale must have been "sold"actually.

    But still ...that's hardly marketing "rocket science" these days, wondering ?
    A couple of things about New Zealand 2...

    1. I looked at the seats throughout the day of the show, and they were rapidly disappearing. Either they were being taken out of the system or they were being sold. About two hours before the show they had sold most of the one side that had appeared mostly unsold a few weeks prior, with only some club room seats available.

    2. They gave out loads of tickets. They went to several local factories and gave away tickets. This counts as a comp., and means that they do not have to count it in the capacity number for the show. It doesn't count as a sale, but it doesn't count as an empty seat.

    3. They moved some tickets and closed down two sections, supposedly for "sight lines." These were done because of technical requirements, so again, those seats no longer count. And it pushes those in partially empty areas into a full area.

    Do I think it was a sell out? No, I expect a lot of tickets were given away to make it look like it was, and that others got pulled from sale because they could convince the venue the seats shouldn't be used. But it looks like they played by the reporting rules and its a technical sell out by Pollstar's definitions. It is the venue who reports the numbers, and not the band, so U2's team can't just report these. They have to convince the venue to report the capacity for the show that matches what they have for sales...
  9. Originally posted by deanallison:[..]
    Well to touch on what someone said a few comments ago maybe these artists have been bold in putting tickets on sale for the entire venue where u2 keep back some. If all available tickets sell u2 can release the held back tickets at a slow rate. I think as long as 90% of available tickets sell they can label it a sell out. So lets say the venue holds 40k but they only make 35k available for night 2 then they only need to sell 31.5k for a ‘technical’ Sell out. If they sold all 35k they could start putting more tickets up for sale. Only a theory of course I have no evidence to back this up.
    They actually have to sell the number of tickets that the capacity is listed as. Pollstar reports the capacity and also the total sales, as well as if it is a sell out or not. So if they were 10% behind, you would see it in the tickets sold category.

  10. This picture is the same sections that were originally posted to U2start on twitter a few weeks back. You can see the upper part of the photo no longer has much for sale. The line at the bottom about 1/4 of the way up is the club / lounge area. Expensive entry into a room full of strangers where you may or may not have a good view of things...and likely where some of the comps happened. Bring in a group from a local factory etc.

    The photo is about 7 hours before showtime. I looked again just before the ticket sale stopped online (about 2hr before the show) and there wasn't much left except in that lounge area.
  11. It sounds like the strategy of convincing venues certain seats shouldn’t be sold and having giveaways means the capacity can be set at near enough whatever the band want it to be. Obviously from a financial point of view it’s never ideal to have to do these things but from the ‘sell out’ marketing point of view it’s an easy tactic. If they played in a 60k capacity venue and only sold 40k what’s stopping them giving away the majority of the 20k left therefore reducing the listed capacity by the same amount? Or am I understanding the give away thing wrong?
  12. Originally posted by deanallison:It sounds like the strategy of convincing venues certain seats shouldn’t be sold and having giveaways means the capacity can be set at near enough whatever the band want it to be. Obviously from a financial point of view it’s never ideal to have to do these things but from the ‘sell out’ marketing point of view it’s an easy tactic. If they played in a 60k capacity venue and only sold 40k what’s stopping them giving away the majority of the 20k left therefore reducing the listed capacity by the same amount? Or am I understanding the give away thing wrong?
    You got it. If you give away the tickets you reduce the capacity.

    60,000 seat venue. All can be sold. You give away 5000 and the capacity is listed as 55,000 in the box score listings.

    What I was unable to find when I was looking around at the box score rule is if there is a limit on the percentage that can be given away. So there may be some rule that says more than 20% cannot be given away or something like that. Otherwise I could rent out Wembley stadium, give away 80,000 tickets and sell you 1 and count that as a sell out. (But the overall number would be listed as capacity 1, so you'd know something was odd...)