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  1. As the delay for new music reached new heights with U2, I started thinking about how they couldn't work with a producer like Rick Rubin, who usually believes the artist can produce themselves, but maybe just need a little push and direction. But they have worked well with producers who help shape and mold the direction of the songs. It's like U2 don't have confidence enough to produce themselves. I hate to always rely on my knowledge as a Prince expert, but that man can go into a studio and come out with over 100 produced songs in a single year, and he can play all the instruments himself, and self-produce. He has worked with a younger producer for a few songs this year, which scares me, but U2 are FOUR people, who can't seem to produce themselves at all. I'm still unsure of my feelings about Songs of Innocence. My first listens were overly positive, and now, I'm starting to pull back just a tiny bit. In years past Eno Lanois were the face of U2 behind the scenes. Eventually it came out that Eno/Lanois were co-writing songs, and were bitter about not getting co-writing credit they felt they deserved.

    When I listen to SOI, I do tend to hear a lot of the sounds of younger bands, instead of new creative direction. There's a bit of Black Keys, Coldplay, Danger Mouse, etc.. And it makes me feel insecure about my trust in U2 as a creative force. I know U2 is still the core creator of their craft, but SOI seems to be missing that one huge song. NLOTH had 3 songs I felt were close: NLOTH, Boots, and Breathe. And one song that was huge to me: Magnificent. I liked MOS, but felt it was the most over-blown over-hyped song of their career. It did fit as a tour closer on 360, but it was still a little awkward. "40" would have been the obvious choice.

    As a songwriter, I view production as two things. 1...the technical side of knowing which buttons to push. I am below novice level on that side of it. And 2...the "listening" side of production. That is where I know I would excel if given a chance on a major recording as a co-producer or consultant. I know where a bass part should be louder in the mix. I know where a guitar solo might fit in a sparse empty song. I also know which songs to choose. Yes, this sounds like I'm saying I know better than others...and that's just my opinion. As I listen to SOI, I wonder if Songs of Experience has the more gutsy songs. And maybe a hidden gem like "Acrobat" or "Love Is Blindness." I do feel SOI has no awful songs, and no mildly weak ones. As a whole, it's more enjoyable to me than NLOTH, but lack of huge songs makes me wonder which album I would rate higher a year from now.

    I really hope they do revisit the Rick Rubin material, and also embrace their rock side a bit more. A few tracks on SOI let the Edge shine, but he's not exactly going "Bullet The Blue Sky" or "Miami" on this record. It still seems a bit more electronic and forced than past releases. I can't say I'm impressed by Ryan Tedder or Danger Mouse for that matter. I'd love for them to make up with Rick Rubin, and maybe even bring Eno/Lanois back. But most of all, I'd love for a full album of them self-producing themselves. Wouldn't it be great to have a U2 album where it was their own vision, and not have them asking someone else, and especially asking some young hot shot for "approval." Just release something and let the material stand or fall on its own...no worries about being "relevant" or having a hit single. Just my thoughts.
  2. Interesting thoughts. My personal opinion of the album is that it is my favorite of their entire discography and it represents a freshness that we haven't seen from U2 in a long time. Regarding their concerns for relevance, several aspects of the album, including the means of its release, lead me to believe that they have conquered those demons. I've talked about those aspects extensively in other threads, so there's no reason to bring them up again here.

    Regarding your thoughts about U2 relying on a producer, I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. When comparing U2 to your discussion of Prince, the fact that Prince is one man and U2 is four is actually a huge factor. In the instance of Prince, the only person he has to satisfy is himself. In U2's case, 4 people have to share the exact same creative and artistic vision. While the various bands of U2 do share creative values with each other (if they had nothing in common, they probably wouldn't have stuck together for so long), each individual will obviously have their own interpretations of how songs should play out. The band themselves address a bit of that in their documentary, From the Sky Down. Even though the documentary focused on the production of Achtung Baby, I think the point it makes about U2 comprising of four individuals each with a unique creative style holds true even to this day.

    One interesting thing I remember reading from an article back from the 360 Tour is Bono saying that the reason Magnificent stopped showing up in sets is because Edge was bothered by Bono singing over his solo. That could have just been hearsay, but it wouldn't be surprising if Bono and Edge had differing views regarding how that section should be performed.

    I think the advantage of U2 having a producer they trust is the equivalent of having an unbiased referee to help settle disputes regarding creative vision while in a one man show a producer might be counter-productive. That being said, I'm sure U2 know the dangers of letting a producer run the entire show. However, I think SOI has all the makings of a uniquely "U2" sounding album. I don't have any experience with music production or composition, so I can't say anything in that regard, but when I listen to the album, it just feels like it's U2's masterpiece. Sure, there are aspects from other artists melded in, but that's the nature of the creative process. There is no such thing as a truly "original" idea. Everything has an inspiration, whether that inspiration is something from nature or something someone else created. What makes ideas unique is how the individual takes that inspiration and makes it their own.

    Long story short, I think U2 is finally on the right track. In NLOTH, you could tell that the band was desperately grasping at whatever they could to obtain the "relevance" they desired and ultimately it created something that in some cases did not represent an honest U2. Songs of Innocence is U2 releasing themselves from that burden and creating music for their own sake. At least that's how it sounds like to me.
  3. I agree and disagree at parts with you both, but nice analyses anyway

    While I don't think SOI it's their best album ever, not even close (sorry Alex), I feel it's a damn great album in which they haven't been afraid to do things that maybe were hidden or not fully done on NLOTH and past albums.

    Do they rely a bit too much on producers? Probably - but it's always been like that with our guys. Which was their first big step up in sound and songwriting? The Unforgettable Fire, which was the first baby born under the Eno/Lanois cradle. They trust and always have trusted their producers and never been afraid to radically change (or even scrap) something if they guy behind the desk doesn't like it. But I agree with Jason that they might have taken it a step forward in this album, taking a bit too much from "currently succesful bands & trends", but that was to be expected with all this past years' yadda yadda about relevance. Should they had hired Eno/Lanois again, 1) we probably wouldn't have the album sitting on our iTunes vault yet, and 2) it would be radically different (less fresh, less trendy, more classic) for sure.

    And yeah, as a songwriter myself I also absolutely agree with you, Jason, when you say that a producer should be "something" besides pushing some buttons and adjusting some levels - they should be a pair of "thinking ears". And THIS is the part where I lack the Eno/Lanois (or even Lillywhite or Flood) intervention: someone should have said Edge to loosen up a bit again, someone that knows him well (that doesn't include Danger Mouse or Paul Epworth for sure). NLOTH was full of Edge's greatness (UC, Breathe, MOS, even Magnificent had far better guitar work & solos than any song off SOI), but this album lacks the Edge's spark all around. Good riffs and great guitar tones, but no greatness anywhere. Raised By Wolves and The Troubles specially suffer from this; both songs scream for a dirty, bluesy guitar solo that never or badly happens, and same for other songs. The producer(s) should have said: "Edge, pick up your guitar, go there and record something to fill up this 30 seconds of music". But they decided to fill them up with synths and backing vocals. No no no.
  4. I'm sure Edge will go wild with those songs on tour.
  6. The producer(s) should have said: "Edge, pick up your guitar, go there and record something to fill up this 30 seconds of music, or I'll take your hat off".
  7. Originally posted by blink:The producer(s) should have said: "Edge, pick up your guitar, go there and record something to fill up this 30 seconds of music, or I'll take your hat off".

    hahaha
  8. Originally posted by blink:The producer(s) should have said: "Edge, pick up your guitar, go there and record something to fill up this 30 seconds of music, or I'll take your hat off".

    That makes me think of the part in U2: At The End of the World during the Numb video shoot when Bill Flanagan tells Bono they should have someone take off Edge's beanie only to reveal he has another one on underneath. Bono thinks it's brilliant but Edge shoots it down. Would've been awesome!
  9. I agree with Sergio, this really feels like Bono's album. But where's Edge? I don't want classic Edge sounds all over the place, but he was much more interesting on NLOTH I think.
  10. Bono should keep his mouth shut sometimes when Edge plays.

  11. Agreed, but this is more of an annoyance to me when they play live than on record.
  12. I think there are two things to mention here. One is that it's really possible that Edge took more of a production approach to this record. Maybe a lot of the synths will be played by him live, maybe many of them were written by him in the studio and recorded by him rather than DM or someone else. No he doesn't have a producer credit, but it's still possible. He's still all over this record as far as I can tell. Lots of guitar, piano, etc. It's not the first album that U2 have put out where there isn't much traditional Edge guitar in there.

    The second thing is that when these songs are played live, there's a good chance some of them will have a different arrangement to suit Edge more. Maybe he'll play some of the synth parts on guitar, maybe he'll have a keyboard next to him this tour (thinking stuff like the California chorus). It's definitely possible you'll just be able to hear his lighter guitar parts a lot more live too.

    I think the only reason people are saying that about Bono is because the album lyrically is so personal to him. We all know Bono takes more of a conductor/director position in the studio than super hands on. I'm sure he picked up a guitar, bass, keyboard, maybe even drums in the studio. But a lot of these rhythms and parts were written by the rest of the band. Maybe there aren't as many "shining" moments like the intro of SBS for Larry, Mofo for Adam (Volcano is dope though) or Streets for Edge, but to me the whole album has them shining on it. The composition is amazing.