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  1. Originally posted by Caledonia:[..]
    That's amazing stuff. I think I remember you posting that here before Elysium.

    I've often suspected this going back to when I first heard these in early 1991. I can remember a few weeks after hearing them (sent to me by a guy in your neck of the woods actually, well a bit further west), there was a little news report in the NME that Paul McGuinness had the FBI and BPI involved in hunting down dealers selling the New U2 vinyls at record fairs and at source.

    To me, if they did self-leak these (either by the band, or Paul, or someone at Island etc) it would make sense in a way - like a form of guerilla marketing and putting the feelers out there for what people liked - although back in 1991 I'm not entirely sure how they'd gauge feedback on the material. That said it's kind of at odds with Paul McGuinness's stance on this material, who I heard he was livid about them - but I don't know maybe that was part of the marketing too!

    It's well known the band were in disarray with which way to go, and struggling for awhile during this period, and these sessions which I actually believe were done at least in part during 1990 at STS in Dublin (if not then perhaps are even entirely from Dublin) and then took them as a reference point to work on in Berlin.

    And the sessions include wildly different styles - for U2 at least - from the FM friendly pop/rock of 'Where Did It All Go Wrong' to the bluesy 'Heaven & Hell' and 'Doctor Doctor' through to heavy rock (even borderline metal maybe) with the likes of 'Sugarcane' / 'She's Gonna Blow Your House Down' / 'Wake Up Dead Man' to almost jazz U2 with the beautiful 'Walk On By' which evolved into 'North And South Of The River' eventually.

    To me I find it crazy to hear people here saying they don't get the appeal. They're far from half-baked ideas to me - it's the genesis of 'Achtung Baby'. And whilst they're not fully-fledged polished songs either and contain a lot of lyrical sketches and Bongolese, they also contain lots of fabulous lyrics and ideas that found their way onto Achtung Baby later on. I know Bono dismissed the recordings as 'Gobbledegook' at the time and said it was like someone reading your personal diary - but if you love U2, and afterall most of us on here surely do - I'm amazed to hear anyone here say they're poor quality or half-baked - it's a fabulous insight into U2's writing / recording process midway into their recording sessions for what is probably one of two of their most famous and revered albums.

    I personally obsessed over these recordings for a long time, and they still get a regular play today almost 30 years later. It was very exciting to hear them way before 'Achtung' dropped and wonder which direction U2 would eventually go with... and the truth is... it was most of those directions... and then some more! With a dash of irony and self-dreprecation for good-measure.
    Agree with a lot you say here. I also think that the tapes were from various sessions before Berlin, and taken there as a reference. The instrumental 'Real Thing' is known to be recorded alongside Desire in '88 for example.

    And I think they're 'incomplete' in a sense that songs like Sick Puppy/Ultraviolet etc aren't on the tapes but were worked on prior to Berlin. There's a picture somewere of the master tape they took from Berlin which has 3 songs written on it (One, MW and Down All The Days).

    I would find it very hard to believe U2 leaked these themselves.. By Spring '91 they had much more material, so why leak 10 versions of Salome and 4 cd's of drumloops? Be interesting to read the Cartar Allen letter though, can anyone point me to where it's posted?

  2. This is that pic from the Berlin Master tape (forgot about Candyman)
  3. Wow! I can actually remember the title 'Candyman' being bandied about in 1991. Maybe I saw it on a whiteboard picture at some point. That is awesome stuff!
  4. Originally posted by melon51:[..]
    Agree with a lot you say here. I also think that the tapes were from various sessions before Berlin, and taken there as a reference. The instrumental 'Real Thing' is known to be recorded alongside Desire in '88 for example.

    And I think they're 'incomplete' in a sense that songs like Sick Puppy/Ultraviolet etc aren't on the tapes but were worked on prior to Berlin. There's a picture somewere of the master tape they took from Berlin which has 3 songs written on it (One, MW and Down All The Days).

    I would find it very hard to believe U2 leaked these themselves.. By Spring '91 they had much more material, so why leak 10 versions of Salome and 4 cd's of drumloops? Be interesting to read the Cartar Allen letter though, can anyone point me to where it's posted?
    I've tried to find it but can't as of yet - it might be in the collectibles thread - I'm 99% sure I saw it before, and knowing Elysium, i'm 1000% sure it's a legit letter.

    I'm sort of fence-sitting here.

    It wouldn't surprise me if it was a veiled deliberate leak - I'd often suspected and wondered if it could be. But I agree its at odds really with everything else that was going off when The New U2 vinyl sets surfaced and the band and P.M.s reactions - unless it was all part of the shenanigans. Who knows. But Carter was pretty close to the band, so very interesting for sure.
  5. Originally posted by popmarter:[..]
    A lot of them are absolute rubbish and it's just the band trying out ideas and half baked songs ,I don't believe they deliberately leaked them U2 are such perfectionists that they don't like people hearing all their unused studio recordings ALTYCLB reissue is proof of that ,it was definitely some inside guy working in the studio with them trying to make a quick buck .
    To me it's all fascinating stuff and very listenable, and a great insight into the transition between the twin towers of U2's career - 'The Joshua Tree' and 'Achtung Baby'.

    That said I do agree that the band are perfectionists and they're not keen on people hearing unfinished unreleased studio material willy-nilly. Though they definitely appear to have loosened up on this down the years - 'Rise Up' being a good example - that's very much the kind of unfinished sketch of a song that you might find on the Salome recordings. But still a great listen!

    I'm not so sure about an inside guy trying to make a buck. The story goes that it was a haul of DAT tapes taken from one of the band or production crew members hotel rooms in Berlin - but there were also reports that DAT tapes were being left lying around in band members cars.
  6. Originally posted by Caledonia:[..]
    Wow! I can actually remember the title 'Candyman' being bandied about in 1991. Maybe I saw it on a whiteboard picture at some point. That is awesome stuff!
    The funny thing is that the pic is on U2's website Only thing that fascinates me is the July Melbeach reference (Edge's home studio). That can't be about One if we're following U2's own narrative?
  7. Originally posted by melon51:[..]
    The funny thing is that the pic is on U2's website Only thing that fascinates me is the July Melbeach reference (Edge's home studio). That can't be about One if we're following U2's own narrative?
    Yeah, very curious that!
  8. Originally posted by melon51:[..]
    Agree with a lot you say here. I also think that the tapes were from various sessions before Berlin, and taken there as a reference. The instrumental 'Real Thing' is known to be recorded alongside Desire in '88 for example.

    And I think they're 'incomplete' in a sense that songs like Sick Puppy/Ultraviolet etc aren't on the tapes but were worked on prior to Berlin. There's a picture somewere of the master tape they took from Berlin which has 3 songs written on it (One, MW and Down All The Days).

    I would find it very hard to believe U2 leaked these themselves.. By Spring '91 they had much more material, so why leak 10 versions of Salome and 4 cd's of drumloops? Be interesting to read the Cartar Allen letter though, can anyone point me to where it's posted?




    https://u2start.com/topic/3561/4644/12

    This really is genuine. I have kept a correspondence with Carter to this very day. Spent quite a bit of time with Mike Peters and Carter in Rhyl when The Alarm play their conventions. Two very decent people who are as far removed from ego as possible.
  9. Amazing stuff Jules... maybe we will get to the bottom of this properly some day. It's all very 'Give My Regards To Broad Street-esque" haha!
  10. Well I would doubt he would release that kind of information to me back then (see the date of the letter... St. Patrick's Day 1993) without that inside knowledge circulating. It has been the general consensus that this is true for quite some time.

    Anyone who knows the nature of bootlegs and what they provide the music fan has always sought these things out. And now we see such things rise up from the vaults in various guises that are attached to Deluxe, Super-Deluxe and Über-Deluxe box sets as extras etc. So the market is there for them.
  12. Pretty interesting stuff for sure.

    I don't doubt the legitimacy of what Carter says at all, and it's always been a bit of a sneaking suspicion of mine that it **could** be a possibility, but only really to try and get a 'feeler' of what people liked and didn't like.

    What does seem odd though is I remember it was reported that the FBI and BPI were involved. When I read it in the NME - I was initially like "oh shit! " lol, but obviously they wouldn't really be interested in fans possessing the vinyls or tapes of them, just those selling the vinyls at the time and the source presser. The 3CD set didn't come until a little later in the year. So it would be interesting if all that furore was part of it all!

    Now the BPI I can understand... as I know they would get involved in seizing commercially manufactured bootleg material being sold in UK stores and record fairs.

    However, I'm not sure why the FBI would have been involved on a matter of what was likely purely European jurisdiction - I always found that a bit odd, so maybe that was a red herring put out there by Paul.

    Maybe Paul and the band didn't like the commercial manufacture (they don't usually let's face it), but if they put this material out there deliberately themselves, then they would have probably known that would have been the consequence. Unless they were actually involved in the commercial manufacture themselves - though I don't imagine that - as it's fairly limited quantity stuff - unless like I say it was purely to get a 'feeler' for what people liked - the material on there is quite wide-ranging in style.

    Anyway definitely very interesting.